For Impact: The Charity Podcast

Hosted by Felicia Willow, the Mary Poppins of the Charity Sector, and Chris Pitt of Benefact Group, this episode explores the reality behind founder’s syndrome in the charity sector. Join us as we examine how control, identity and power can shift founders from driving impact to creating risk…or worse.

From founder to saboteur: the reality behind founder’s syndrome in our sector

Podcast transcript

Transcript: From founder to saboteur: the reality behind founder’s syndrome in our sector

Podcast description

Founder’s syndrome is a recognised problem in our sector, but there is more to the story. Why is it so prevalent? What can be done? And what should founders do if they recognise some of these behaviours in themselves? This episode examines how control, identity and power can shift founders from driving impact to creating risk…or worse, and how those dynamics are often enabled rather than challenged.

The discussion brings together Susanna Kislenko, an academic specialising in founder leadership and founder’s syndrome, Carla Gill, a former founder now working with others through transition, and Mona Vadher and Nick Moore, two Interims for Impact associates who, as interim CEOs, who have seen first-hand the impact these situations can have on organisations, culture and governance. Together, they explore what sits beneath the label of founder’s syndrome and what needs to happen before the consequences become systemic.

“When charisma is combined with the desire to control the organisation at all levels, at all costs, in every single way, that’s when the elements of founders’ syndrome come into play. Some of the features include extreme micromanagement, not being able to delegate, not having a succession plan, sabotaging other employees.”

Dr Susanna Kislenko

“By having the term ‘founders’ syndrome’ it means that it is an acknowledged issue, but I feel that it oversimplifies the problem. It blames just the founder. It puts blame on just one person. It misses out all the societal pressures, the fact that there might be inexperienced boards, that people are enabling that founder, often there are impossible expectations, and often there is also trauma.”

Carla Gill

“The biggest issue is around those blurred boundaries between the founder, the executive and the board, particularly when the founder still holds that informal power beyond their formal role. The governance exists, but it’s not fully lived.”

Mona Vadher

“It seems obvious to say it, but as soon as someone registers a charity, it is no longer any individual’s, it is no longer the founder’s, it is now an institution and a separate legal body in its own right, no matter how passionate the funders are or how effective they are…Boards need to keep front and centre that this is not a personal project any more.”

Nick Moore

Resources:

Good Governance and Leadership in Founder-led Organisations(PDF)

Susanna’s Substack page

The Founder Leadership Research Lab: kellogg.ox.ac.uk

Our hosts

Felicia Willow

Also known as the Mary Poppins of the Charity Sector, is a seasoned interim CEO and consultant in the Charity Sector, working primarily on strategy, governance, crisis and effectiveness. Her leadership roles include the Fawcett Society and the Shannon Trust. A lawyer by training, Felicia’s career has spanned government, UN and the UK charity sector (the ‘For Impact’ sector) and she finds herself increasingly focussed on discussing and challenging the systemic issues that are holding the sector back.

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Chris Pitt

Chris Pitt is responsible for positive social and environmental impact at Benefact Group, a family of specialist financial services businesses owned by a charitable Trust. The Group is the 3rd largest corporate giver to charity1 and Chris oversees over £2m of giving, namely through the Movement for Good awards which give small donations to a huge diversity of causes and large grants to charities close to the customers and communities of the Group.

DSC – The guide to UK Company Giving 2023-24

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Our guests

Dr Susanna Kislenko

Director, The Founder Leadership Research Project

Dr. Susanna Kislenko is a social psychologist whose research is focused on founder leadership beyond the founding (start-up) stage in all contexts. Using qualitative research methods, Susanna’s work pulls back the curtain on the challenges and potentially darker organisational consequences of long-term founder leadership, including Founder’s Syndrome. Susanna created and directs The Founder Leadership Research Lab at Kellogg College at the University of Oxford. She is also an Adjunct Research Professor at Carleton University in Canada and leads women’s leadership embodiment retreats internationally. Having a long-term interest in how leadership impacts organisations and systems, Susanna holds an IBBA from the Schulich School of Business at York University, an MA in Political Science from McGill University and a PhD in Organizational Behaviour from IESE Business School. Prior to entering academia, Susanna worked in the non-profit sector in Canada, holding a number of leadership roles in social service organizations. Susanna’s research is driven and motivated by her practical experience and she is always looking for ways to translate research into practice.

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Carla Gill

Founder, Your Charity Coach

Carla has spent their career supporting charities to grow, adapt and deliver meaningful impact. Working across the sector, partnering with senior leaders, founders and emerging professionals to strengthen strategy, scale fundraising and navigate change. Having founded and handed over a successful international development charity, she brings lived experience to supporting founders through key transitions.

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Mona Vadher

Interim CEO / COO

Mona is an interim CEO/COO and culture and strategy consultant, supporting charities and social purpose organisations to navigate change, strengthen governance, and build aligned, sustainable organisations. She has over 12 years’ experience leading organisations through growth, transition and turnaround, including moving a youth charity from the brink of closure to financial sustainability.

Alongside her interim leadership roles, Mona works as a consultant and critical friend to CEOs, senior leadership teams and Boards, facilitating complex organisational conversations and supporting leadership, culture and systems change. She is a trustee at ReachOut and a passionate advocate for values-led, relational and anti-oppressive leadership.

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Nick Moore

Director, 13C Consulting

Nick is a highly experienced Consultant, Interim Leader and Co-pilot helping charities & social enterprises to thrive, co-create strategic and business plans, maximise impact, manage crises, and develop effective financial sustainability and governance. He combines 15 years in the commercial world with over 18 in the social sector and brings to his work insights from over 10 years of trustee and director roles.

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This podcast is provided for information purposes only and is general and educational in nature and does not constitute legal advice. The information contained herein should not be considered as substitute for seeking professional advice in specific circumstances.

All opinions expressed are the individuals own and not of (or to be affiliated with) the Benefact Group plc or its group companies.

Benefact Group plc shall not be liable for your use or any reliance on, or action taken (or not taken) by you and any loss, however incurred, as a result; all responsibility for such is excluded (except for that which cannot be excluded by law) by the Benefact Group plc.

Please note that over time the information contained herein may become out of date and may not constitute best market practice, that it is subject to change and new editions may be issued to incorporate such changes. You acknowledge that Benefact Group plc have no duty to provide such changes to this recording.

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